Talking about The Langshan with Michelle Burns
The Langshan Chicken, one of the biggest chickens and Michelle, one of the biggest personalities! We had so much fun in this episode and laughed too much.
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Tony: 0:00
Welcome to the Poultry Nerds Podcast, where feathers meet fun. Your podcast hosts are Carey Blackmon and Jennifer Bryant. Together, they work hard to bring you the latest news and information from the world of poultry. So get ready for eggciting interviews, foul facts, and more. Now here's Carey and Jennifer.
0:17
Mhm.
Duncan: 0:21
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Jennifer: 0:39
All right. Welcome to Poultry Nerds Podcast. We are here with Michelle. She breeds Langshans. And Michelle, tell us about yourself. Where are
Michele: 0:49
you? What, do you have a farm name? All the good stuff. Sure. Thanks for having me here. This is only my second podcast ever. This is exciting. I am Michelle Sullivan Burns. And the reason why I go by Michelle Sullivan Burns is because there's another Michelle Burns in the APA world. Own MSB poultry here in Mineral Wells, Texas, and it's about one hour West of Fort Worth. Okay. Yeah.
Jennifer: 1:15
Is it down there right now?
Michele: 1:17
I'm sorry.
Jennifer: 1:18
Is it boiling hot down there right now? Oh,
Michele: 1:20
it is. It is. It's pretty. Yeah. It's better than last year, though. Meaning, it's only like a hundred. Not like a hundred and five. I know that sounds
Carey: 1:29
funny. I do agree. In the South, last year, we had 110. It was bad.
Michele: 1:35
It was bad.
Carey: 1:36
This year is a little cooler than it was last year.
Michele: 1:38
I know. Cool at 102.
Carey: 1:41
Yeah.
Jennifer: 1:42
So tell us about Langshans. Oh,
Michele: 1:44
Langshan. I got into that.
Jennifer: 1:47
Where do they come from?
Michele: 1:49
They originally are from East China. Actually Langshan Mountain. And way east. So it's so far east on the coast that if you looked out Japan is two hour boat ride To the west as well as that's South Korea right there. Yeah. Crazy stuff. They came to the, Eat, they came more to the West through Germany and through Britain Germany, then to Britain by way of major Croads. So you might see them listed as sometimes Croad, Lancashire. And there was actually a gentleman that actually major Croad brought them this way. And in turn they came to the United States, I think Britain 1900. And then they'd been in that area since.
Jennifer: 2:34
Okay, so when somebody says Langshan, or they say Croads, are they the same bird?
Michele: 2:40
Yes, but then there's also just German Langshan.
Jennifer: 2:44
Okay.
Michele: 2:45
Because they the feet, the feathering is a little different on their feet. Actually, some German Langshan don't have any feathered feet. Yeah, it can get a little, you gotta, it's like the whole Australorp Jersey Giant thing. So I don't know if you've ever seen that people talk, Oh, I have an Australopithecus, I actually have a Jersey giant. And you're going to look, it's just different characteristics make them whatever that breed is. And if you've seen them. Yes.
Carey: 3:08
On the Australorp Jersey giant I've actually wanted to go pop popcorn, reading threads about that on Facebook. Cause some people get real into that.
Michele: 3:17
They'll get really do. It's I only know that because I got bamboozled and I had great, the gray bottom. Feet more, or Australorp depending who you talk to. Australorp and then of course yellow is Jersey Giant. Oh, interesting. Yep. Yeah. What
Carey: 3:34
have pretty yellow legs.
Michele: 3:36
Yeah. So yes, we're shin. I have the real nice feathered feet, but not feathered like cochen or say salmon Favre. Or even Brahma. It's more of a wispy on the leg. And there's only feathers down the middle toe and to the right. It should be. I know I'm very visual, this means feather. So for
Jennifer: 4:00
all of our listeners, she's showing us with her hands what she's doing.
Michele: 4:04
Yes.
Jennifer: 4:06
So they're sparsely feathered, like a moran.
Michele: 4:09
Yeah, I guess you, yes, exactly. But you could, but on the feet it should be on this side, on the outsides, and there should be nothing.
Jennifer: 4:16
Yeah. What colors do langshans come in?
Michele: 4:21
Black, Blue, White and there's some splash out there, but the APA only recognizes Black, White, and Blue. And what's really cool about white is that you could hatch out a bunch of black and then boom, there'd be a White because they all, they have this gene in there that, and both, of course, both parents have to have it in order to have it. But then if you can get some Whites. Then yeah,
Jennifer: 4:48
so it has recessive white.
Michele: 4:49
Yes. It yes, it does. Gotcha.
Jennifer: 4:51
Gotcha. That's pretty
Michele: 4:52
cool I only show black.
Jennifer: 4:55
Yeah. Okay, you only show black. Yeah, I only show black So tell us about your birds like do they come in large fowl and bantam? They come in large fowl and bantam
Michele: 5:06
I like large fowl. And that's only because I just, that's, you like what you like. And they do come in bantam and they're adorable. They're just like, you just take, I think it's cool when you see something like, look at how big that is. And you just shrink it down. It's this cute little, cute little little bird. But I, yeah, no bigger go, I go big or go home. I want them big. I want them big.
Jennifer: 5:24
You're in good company because I have Cochins and Orpingtons and Kerri Perkins, Rhode Island Reds.
Michele: 5:33
Absolutely. Yeah, I, yeah. No, the bigger the better. Yeah. Really. I do. I think they just, they're so more statuesque to me. Absolutely. And I got involved with them, it was fall 22 and here in Comanche Texas, there was a show and that's actually a two day double show both days. So it was really a good show and I brought my crevs there, which we'll talk about that later. And I happened to do one of those. What is that over there? And I became acquainted with Phil Harriman, who is pretty big and come to find out Lili lives like 30 minutes from my house. And we struck up a conversation. He said to me, congratulations because my crev beat his Langshan. And we started talking and I'm like, okay, that's cool. Have a nice day. That was it. And then I saw them again in That would be Blue Bonnet which is a huge show in Houston. And then I saw them at Klein, the Langshan, and I saw Phil again, we started talking and that's actually where also I met Patrick Jones PJ. A lot of people are friends with him in this, especially in the APA. A lot of people are friends with him and he has Brahma and we started talking and then I saw them again in 20, that would be January 23 at the stock show and the stock show is only 45 minutes for me. So I'm going to that show, of course. And. Me and Phil I just, they, I just kept on looking, I keep looking off like that because that's where they were. I kept on looking off to them and I said, I need that bird. I need those birds somehow. I need to get these birds. I talked to Phil and Patrick and I got me some birds and it was January of 23 and I hatched out my first birds, March of 23.
Jennifer: 7:14
It is awesome to have a showman to get you started and then to help mentor you.
Michele: 7:20
Absolutely. I think the best, I think what people miss out on shows is actually, once the show gets going, that's when of course you start talking to people. But I convince people, go up to that person and you make that person your best friend. That's who you need to make. You talk to them, you, it's not like you want to go up and brown nose them, it's more I like your birds, tell me what you do. How can I do what you do? And if you show genuine interest, you could get yourself a mentor completely. Absolutely.
Jennifer: 7:48
So are they mentoring you in your breeding program?
Michele: 7:51
I was already breeding Crev before that. So when it comes to like mentoring, I was more worried about, they are such a big animal, much, they're like double the size of my crabs. So then you start getting into like feed and whatnot. And I had a very bad experience actually, after I bred them, which was when they hatched out, I had one girl hatch out like four or five, her two sisters died within 24 hours of each other. in the same pen. And I'm like, okay, that's a, that was scary. Of course I put them on ice. I packed them up and I shipped them off to Texas A&M necropsy. What I got back is these birds are so big that they will pull calcium from everywhere just to make that egg. So they were D3 sufficient, no different than adult female human. So they need D3 on top of calcium to tell the calcium to get absorbed. So D3 helps the calcium get absorbed into the bodies. I, it was nothing I've ever seen before, but they literally dropped it. And I'm like, and of course, what's you, what do you think of everything goes. Don't want to use the words like A. I. or Merrick's and all that. Oh, and that's what was scary is. So I'm glad I got the necropsy, though. Absolutely.
Jennifer: 9:19
What we don't know is Carey is studying poultry nutrition. Oh, really? Really?
Carey: 9:27
Yeah. I've become a little bit of a poultry nutrition nerd. In addition to. the other portions of poultry I'm nerdy about. So when you were talking about that, I was like, yeah, it's a D3 deficiency. We'll mess that up in a heartbeat. And a lot of people, they don't understand the importance of the nutrition, which is why they go by that$15 bag of feed instead of the$25 bag. And the sad thing is even the more expensive feeds, some of them are still not quite where they need to be. So
Jennifer: 10:02
no,
Carey: 10:03
It's a thing
Jennifer: 10:05
I am need a specific kind of feed. No,
Michele: 10:11
I buy a specific feed. I'm very blessed to live close to Alito, which is Bryant feeds. And they do make a pretty substantial 28 percent game feed. However, I am hardcore Fertrell. I have poultry show poultry that Fertrell supplement. Yeah. It's like that fish, I smell like it because I just used it. It smells like, it's like fish and The lysine in it is great and it has a thousand, Whatever, whatever those special things that I want to say, I would say I want to say milligrams. Of course, that's not that, but their D3 is extremely high in that. So that's what I use actually in both CREV and my Lanction.
Carey: 10:51
Those are measured in international units.
Michele: 10:53
Thank you. It's like millimeters. So metric, it's measured in a metric.
Jennifer: 11:00
So Carey is good Friends with Jeff at Fertrell. And we've got a podcast with Jeff. So for our listeners wanting to bone up more on the nutrition, you can go back and listen to those. And Carey and Jeff get all nerdy in the nutrition stuff. Yeah.
Carey: 11:19
Some of us pretty in depth.
Jennifer: 11:21
Yeah. The conversation went on for so long. I think you broke it into three episodes, didn't you?
Carey: 11:26
I did break it into three episodes and I cut a lot of it out because it was stuff that he and I were talking about that were proprietary to some projects that we had. in the mix. So I didn't let those cats out of the bag. But aside from that, it was three, anywhere from 25 to 40 minute podcast.
Michele: 11:46
Oh my. Oh yeah. Just so nutritional alone. I believe it. I believe it completely. I could talk. I could talk hours about oh, just chickens in general. And then break it down from there. I can probably do 25 minutes.
Jennifer: 11:59
Okay, I'm going to run through some questions here. So what color eggs do they lay?
Michele: 12:04
On Langshans this is interesting. It's brown, but if you hold it up to the sun, It's purple. It shows a purple hue. Seriously? Yup. And then I have one girl that lays like a cream colored egg, like really light brown. Creamy. But I got one girl, her name is June. June lays. It's brown. I don't have one because of course they're not laying right now. It's, hotter than Hades. It's like brown. Yeah, you hold it up a little bit and it's purple. Oh, you're sweet.
Carey: 12:33
I have a breeding question for you.
Michele: 12:35
Yeah.
Carey: 12:36
If a hen or a pullet comes out of a purple egg, will she also lay purple eggs?
Michele: 12:47
No, because her daughter does it. June's daughter doesn't lay purple eggs.
Carey: 12:51
Okay.'cause I was gonna specifically request if I could order some purple eggs, because purple, that is extremely cool. But
Michele: 12:59
when they start going again, I noticed though, I will say this though, the earlier the season, if I can get those eggs in February, March. They tend to be a little darker than the April not so differently, but you can just see it that it's, yeah, I think that's interesting how the bloom works on that.
Carey: 13:17
That's pretty cool.
Michele: 13:18
It is pretty cool.
Jennifer: 13:19
All right. What kind of comb do they have? Single. Single. Single. And what's their temperament like? People are scared of these big birds.
Michele: 13:28
Oh, I find the bigger the bird, the more gentle, like giant. I had a Millie Fleur that was like a devil's spawn and he was this big and my Langshan was this big and I have a picture and it says, who do you think the bully is? It is literally 100%. It is. The Millie Floor. I'm telling you, they're big. Yeah, they come at you a little bit, but I think it's just because they're scared. They cow it's not that they cower. They're I find them to be enjoyable because once you pick them up and you hold them, he stays right there in your hand. That's it. He'll just stay there. Oh, yeah. So I find them to be enjoy very enjoyable, very pleasant. Very yeah, very they'll sit right next to you. Absolutely.
Jennifer: 14:11
Yeah, I can set the coachings up on the gator not the boys, but the girls. Like I said, them just on the gator seat and drive all over the farm. And they just,
Michele: 14:19
what are we doing? Where are we going? I find the boys, boy Langshan to be a little bit more personable than the females. and want to be more in my face. Maybe it's just because the ones I have, I don't know. But to me, and even, actually, even at the shows I've seen them, they're, they just stand there. They hardly ever run when you know, when you pull, when you go in to get them, especially when we start talking about the Krebs, those things are spastic. But unlike the Lank, like the Langshan are, you could literally just reach right in and okay, I guess I'm getting picked up now. I'm good. That's it. They're just, Go with the flow. Really easy going.
Jennifer: 14:56
All right, let's see. You're breeding standard bred birds. I'm assuming you can buy them from a hatchery also. Yes,
Michele: 15:04
yes you could.
Jennifer: 15:06
Is there obvious differences between a hatchery stock and a standard bred stock?
Michele: 15:12
I absolutely 100 percent believe so. Absolutely.
Jennifer: 15:16
We're going to agree with you. And
Michele: 15:18
you know what, you know how I found that? I think people find that out because you have to fail. You have to I shouldn't have done that. Like you and I try to show people that Oh, this is hatchery. And this is stock, good stock, good standard, quality breeder stock. And I think if people want to get into showing you, you need quality stock, plain and simple. Hatcher's a good place to start if you don't, I hate to say want to spend the money, but it's like anything else. If I, there's one other thing, I don't buy cheap mayonnaise. If you don't want, you don't want cheap birds, then don't buy cheap birds. And if you don't want to have a cheap sandwich, don't buy cheap mayonnaise.
Carey: 15:58
It makes sense.
Jennifer: 16:02
But if you have them side by side, what? Oh, you can tell the difference. Absolutely. And you know that,
Michele: 16:07
Honestly there is no, I also work at, I work at Tractor Supply. Oh, wow. Yes, I do. I worked there for seven years. I am the chicken lady. I have tattoos of chickens. I'm a chicken lady. I worked there for chicken feed. Actually no, I worked there for duck feed. Rephrase that. But people come in and I'm like, they'll say I'm like, it's an ostrich larp. Oh look, it's an ostrich larp. I go, that's a hatchery ostrich larp just to let you know. And I don't mean to, I'm not, I love my job, but like I said, I, I don't mean to be that way, but I like, and then actually that triggers people because they'll be like what's her what's up? What's a breeder? I'm like, oh let me show you and I pick up my phone and I'm like So I just said so basically, but you know what the way I look at it is Hey, if I can get more people to buy from quality breeders, that's whether it's me or someone else down the road. I'm all for it. Yep. Absolutely. Absolutely.
Jennifer: 16:56
All right. And would you classify the langshan as a dual purpose?
Michele: 17:01
Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. People talk about culling and they think automatically, just to butcher. I let mine just free range if I don't really, but not, no, I'll eat them. I will eat them. I'll let them, but they take a while. They take a while to, it's not a, what is it? It's not a, it's not a Cornish, it's not like a big Brahma. It takes a long time to get to at least an edible level. But honestly, if I do eat them, I'm using it more for a soup stock or chicken and dumplings, it's not like they're going to be a main meal because they're not. They're chewy. They're chewy. Yeah, it's like a freedom ranger.
Jennifer: 17:37
Right.
Michele: 17:38
Yep.
Jennifer: 17:38
Yeah, so we we eat the orpingtons. I try not to eat the cochins because they're really messy to try to harvest, but we do eat the orpingtons. But I have found that canning them would zone in. It's awesome.
Michele: 17:56
I can't broth. Definitely, but I've never even thought about canning bone in.
Jennifer: 18:00
Yeah. So digress for just a minute. Y'all just bear with us. So you take a big old court wide mouth jar and you just take a whole leg thigh and everything. Just shove it down in the jar, fill it about third of the way with water and a little bit of salt. Can it just like that? And it cooks in that bone broth. And then when you go to eat it, that must be
Michele: 18:20
like an hour and a half processing and the pressure care. Oh, it's
Jennifer: 18:23
the same. It's 70. Yeah. Nine minutes. Wow. But when you go to open, you just take the bone, you pull it out, throw it away. So
Michele: 18:32
good. Cause it's infusing. Yes. Okay. Oh yeah. It's
Jennifer: 18:38
not pretty. You don't want to like out on your countertop all the time. It's not, Because in the jar, but man is,
Michele: 18:45
Actually when you go to people's houses who prepare like that, you're bound to see anything, I grew up with, people making, head head cheese. Yeah,
Jennifer: 18:53
if you have a pressure can or you should really I can bone in.
Michele: 18:58
Okay. I'm going to try that. Absolutely.
Jennifer: 19:01
Yes. Yes. And so awesome. All right. When you say it takes a long time for him, I know how long it takes, but tell our listeners, how long does it take to get a Lang Shan to edible size?
Michele: 19:13
Over a year, 12, 13, 14 months, even.
Jennifer: 19:18
Maybe. Yeah. So when we say dual purpose we're saying, yeah, it's edible but, it's going to be 3 chicken. Yes,
Michele: 19:28
yes, it is. And it doesn't mean to be, it's just that it's. That's the way it goes. It's,
Jennifer: 19:32
So when we show, cause I show Orpingtons but we have to grow those birds out close to here in order to really whittle it down to what we're keeping. So we do have a lot of feed in those birds. So we can't really sell them and recoup any of our money. So you might as well just eat them. Absolutely.
Michele: 19:53
Yep. Yeah. If they're not, yep. To what I like, but maybe I could give them to maybe I've given a couple of four H's, some birds, see if this is something you like. And if not then you guys can go eat it. But I liked for them to at least maybe, hold it, it's a big bird, so it's Oh, these look fantastic. I'm like, why here? Why don't I give you a few and then see if you can manhandle it and see where it goes from there. Because if you can't control them and, Let's say you're using them in showmanship or something. And maybe it's not the breed for you. So I'd rather, try to give them at least, someone to who might be able to try to use them on that purpose first, always, if I can give to someone.
Jennifer: 20:33
If you were talking to somebody who just wanted to start out in Langshans what would you tell them that you wish you knew that when you started?
Michele: 20:42
That they do eat a lot of feed. They are a heavy, big bird, a lot of feed. It's a lot of feet. Bigger housing.
Carey: 20:53
Bigger. What do you mean by big bird? How big did they get?
Michele: 21:00
A male is supposed to weigh between nine and 10 pounds. I've seen them get to up to 11. It's not that it's, we're talking, they're so statuesque, like this much as leg and then the body, so it's, the housing is because it's Even at I have eight week olds right now. I've got seven week olds right now. And they're pretty, they're done with that small coop. They're done. And that coop is, what, six by four. They're done. They need to go bigger now. Big as in more tall and not just wide. Not like a Cochin wide or a Brahma wide, it's more like Tall like this. And of course, forget it. Their feathers, their tail feathers are equal to their head. Almost, if not taller.
Carey: 21:44
So we're talking like an Orpington or a Jersey giant or bigger.
Michele: 21:49
Yes. I, okay. So I have a JG, I have a Jersey giant. He is more like this like this in the chest. And then my, if I'm looking at them straight on, yeah. My, my Jersey giant does more like this. And then my Langshin does more like this. They're heavy. They go lower breasts where the Jersey Giant's bigger. But yeah, it's, yeah, they eat about the same. They're just mass, they're just massive birds. JJ, especially Cochin's extra. When I saw large fowl Cochin, I was like that, that's almost like Godzilla coming. So yeah, I put them all in that same category of eating almost, that's not a half a cup of food. That's almost I almost give them a cup. A good cup of food, of course with other supplements and whatnot, but big birds, big bird.
Jennifer: 22:40
Yeah, that's, I have the large cochins and they're big, massive birds, but then the orpingtons are just super tall. Some of my orpington boys are bigger than my turkey hens. I I'm real, I'm not super picky about who I sell to, but I do make sure that they are prepared for the big of a bird.
Michele: 23:01
That's exactly. I already knew they were big when I got into them, but I wish I knew that they would get big. Crever more like long in the tail and these are, like I said, the with length should, it's more like up and out. I was used to the bigness, but I think people need to be prepared. That's it. They need to be prepared on how big they can get. Absolutely.
Jennifer: 23:25
I think you've told me what I need to know about Langshans. Carey, you got anything?
Carey: 23:30
I'm good.
Jennifer: 23:31
You're good. Thank you, Michelle, for being with us. You're welcome. Talking about Langshans. You're welcome. All right. We'll talk to you soon.
Carey: 23:40
Thank you for joining us this week. Before you go, be sure to subscribe to our podcast so you can receive new episodes right when they are released. And they're released every week. Feel free to email us at poultrynerds at gmail. com to share your thoughts about the show. Until next time, poultry pals, keep clucking, keep learning, and keep it egg citing. This is Carey signing off from Poultry Nerds. Feathers up, everyone.
