Buff Orpingtons with Ross Harrington
Jennifer’s favorite! The buff Orpington, the friendliest breed of chicken, but I may be biased…. Find out what we look for in a great bird.
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Carey: 0:00
Hi, and welcome to the Poultry Nerds Podcast. I'm Carey Blackmon, and I'm here with my co host for the show, Jennifer Bryant, and we're here to help you figure out how to raise the healthiest, happiest, and highest quality birds possible.
0:16
Mhm.
Jennifer: 0:23
Welcome, poultry nerds. We're here today with Ross Harrington, and he raises buff orpingtons. So welcome Ross, how are you?
Ross: 0:32
Pretty good, thank you.
Jennifer: 0:34
How long have you been racing Buff Orpingtons?
Ross: 0:37
I got pretty serious with the buffs in the last five years. I've always had some running around, but I doubled down about five years ago and really started focusing on them and got rid of some other stuff. So they could be the main focus chicken wise.
Jennifer: 0:55
Yeah, you can only focus on a couple things at a time, can't you?
Ross: 0:59
Chickens for sure. They take up a lot of space.
Jennifer: 1:02
Yep. We try to help people get started with birds. And when I tell people that it takes so much space to just breed one breed well, I don't know that they really understand. So tell us how many breeding groups you have and how much space they take up.
Ross: 1:20
I try to run three breeding groups. Sometimes it doesn't work out that way. It ends up being a little bit more, a little bit less. I like to put one male over two to four females and I mainly just track off of the males. All the females are usually pretty closely related. And then just try to hatch as many as I can out of each pen. Some years it's great. Some years it's not. Just depends on the gods.
Jennifer: 1:49
Depends on the weather, depends on your time.
Ross: 1:52
Yeah.
Jennifer: 1:53
Incubators.
Ross: 1:57
Oh gosh, yeah. And we live down here in Tornado Alley, so that's about the time that we're trying to hatch, and sometimes you'll have one ripped through and won't have power for a little while. Yeah.
Jennifer: 2:10
So your birds so let's explain the difference between standard bred and utility birds.
Ross: 2:18
Yeah I would say the utility birds are great for people just looking for something pretty in their backyard. They generally don't have the size, the body capacity, the quality of feather that we're looking for, and something that we would breed to a standard. And in the standard Orpingtons, I think, especially in the buffs, the biggest thing is of course size, but we also want them to have the feather quality. And that's the biggest issue in me or in my buffs is the females don't always have that nice wide thick feather. But they are overall just a much larger, heavier bird. And I would say they're maybe not as productive as your utility type strains.
Jennifer: 3:04
Yeah. If you're just looking for egg layers, I would not get birds from us.
Ross: 3:10
No, you'll be so disappointed.
Carey: 3:11
No, cause like I have some reds and I have some standard reds and my production reds lay significantly more eggs than my standard reds.
Ross: 3:23
Yeah. And that seems to be the common theme. Those production birds are they're bred to produce. And that is, they're bred to produce eggs.
Jennifer: 3:32
Yep, and then the size difference, I still have two of my original hatchery birds out there. They've got to be nine, ten years old at this point. But they just keep coming back. Clocking along. We're still laying eggs too. But they're probably four, maybe five pounds. Yeah.
Ross: 3:51
They're not real big, but they do live a long time. Those production birds, they live forever.
Jennifer: 3:56
And then the standard hens, they're going to be more like eight to 10 pounds. Right?
Ross: 4:02
Ideally. Yeah. A 10 pounds for a female is probably going to be a little bit too heavy, but I don't see many people bringing scales, so I wouldn't worry too much about weight.
Jennifer: 4:14
We're not going to get into that conversation.
Carey: 4:18
If your buff is a little fluffy, but she looks pretty, you'll be alright. It'll be just fine.
Jennifer: 4:24
I hear a lot about the skirt of the bird. So can you explain to people what they're, what we're talking about?
Ross: 4:31
Yeah, so that skirt is what's covering the hawk. And ideally we don't want it to cover the shank, but Sometimes it does. That skirt is gonna just come right around there about the hock. And it is to cover the hock, but it is not supposed to cover the shank in full. It does sometimes. It's the least of my concerns.
Jennifer: 4:54
But there is a rule, a two inch rule, right?
Ross: 4:58
Allegedly.
Jennifer: 4:59
Allegedly, sometimes it's there. Sometimes it's not.
Ross: 5:02
Yeah, it's like those scales. They're not walking around with the tape measure either.
Carey: 5:06
Depends on the judge. That's right.
Jennifer: 5:09
All right. Let's see. Now, Orpington's come in Bantam and Largefowl. Both of us raised Largefowl.
Ross: 5:16
Yes.
Jennifer: 5:18
Have you seen the little Banning Orpingtons?
Ross: 5:20
Yeah. A friend of mine actually just picked up some Bannum Buffs and they're pretty cool. They look great.
Jennifer: 5:25
They look, but they're so tiny.
Carey: 5:28
Are they smaller than the production ones?
Jennifer: 5:31
Yeah,
Ross: 5:31
they're smaller, but they're really wide and they feel like a bowling ball in your hand.
Jennifer: 5:37
If you can't see their feet, they almost look like a coach in
Ross: 5:40
a little
Jennifer: 5:40
bit. All right. Let's see. So we both raised Buff and they have a whitish pinkish skin. Do all the Orpington plumage colors have white, pink skin?
Ross: 5:54
They're supposed to have white skin. And then of course in the blacks you'll have the Melanizer gene at play. But they're to have white skin too. But their shanks and their beaks are going to be black.
Jennifer: 6:06
And a single comb.
Ross: 6:08
Single comb, five points, medium size.
Jennifer: 6:13
A light brown egg.
Ross: 6:15
Yeah, do yours not lay pink eggs? Mine lay pink eggs.
Jennifer: 6:19
No, I don't have Easter Eggers. I
Carey: 6:23
knew that
Jennifer: 6:27
was coming. You get pink eggs, huh?
Ross: 6:32
Yeah, I'll just send you a picture. Mine are pink.
Jennifer: 6:35
Interesting.
Ross: 6:36
Consistently. We have two
Jennifer: 6:38
different lines of birds. That's
Ross: 6:40
cool.
Jennifer: 6:40
Yours are fluffier than mine. How about, let's talk about the differences between the standard bred and the English Orpingtons. And yeah, so there,
Ross: 6:52
of course they definitely, they're all under the English class. And if you want an English looking bird, then you'll have to breed it to the English standard. But for the American standard, They're not supposed to be as fluffy, as high tailed. The main thing is those English type birds have really high tails and they're just really fluffy. The American birds, the American Orpington is going to be a tighter feathered bird, a little longer back than a much lower tail. Those are the main differences.
Jennifer: 7:25
Yep. And your temperament. No, I have never had a mean Orpington. Have you?
Ross: 7:30
Never.
Jennifer: 7:32
No, they
Ross: 7:33
require very little handling to be tame.
Jennifer: 7:36
I think
Ross: 7:37
they hatch tame, honestly.
Jennifer: 7:39
Yeah. They're pretty much big babies.
Carey: 7:41
Yeah. When you're a chicken and you weigh 10 pounds, you really can't move around fast enough to be aggressive.
Ross: 7:49
No, they're never mean. I don't have any any issues with picking as babies or anything. They're just tame. Really docile birds.
Jennifer: 7:58
So one of my big cock birds, he's probably, I haven't weighed him in a while, but last time I did he was almost 14 pounds and he's about as big as, he's bigger than some of my turkey hens and my four year old grandson was helping me feed one day and he was going in and out of all of the coops grabbing the water buckets for me. And I told him, of course, the Cochins, I have the two cock birds and the Cochins are kind of jerks. And so he doesn't go in there. And so he was going and he was running around the corner and JC is the big cock bird and he was standing there. And he's about eye level with Derek and Derek just comes to a complete stop and just looks at him through the gate, like eye to eye with JC. And he just turned around and he goes, this one's all yours, grandma. I ain't going in there.
Carey: 8:49
That's hilarious. That's funny.
Jennifer: 8:53
Yeah, but they're big birds, but they are no problem sending him in there because he wouldn't hurt him at all.
Ross: 8:59
Yeah they're so tame and I really think that Orpingtons are a great bird for kids, for people just wanting to get into the hobby or even just backyard people. They're really easy going.
Jennifer: 9:11
So let's talk about some defects and like what you look for. Do you start culling straight out of the hatcher, straight out of the brooder? When do you start?
Ross: 9:20
I don't, unless they have sprigs, I don't cull, I don't cull anything until it's about six months old. Obviously sprigs, crooked toes, that's all going to get culled pretty early, but everything else they get to grow up and then at six months I'll start to evaluate type, color, stuff like that.
Jennifer: 9:38
Okay, so explain sprigs to people who don't know what they are and stuff.
Ross: 9:42
So a sprig sometimes is so small you really, you have to feel it. So if you run your hands down each side of their comb, anything that's sticking out is basically what I consider a sprig. Some of them are big very visible, and some of them are super tiny.
Jennifer: 9:58
And a stub?
Ross: 10:01
Stubs are going to be on their feet or in between their toes. It's just a feather or multiple feathers, clusters of feathers, anything like that. I generally don't tolerate.
Jennifer: 10:13
Yeah, those don't, especially the sprigs. Definitely just cull those out. Yep. That is a huge genetic issue later down the road, right?
Ross: 10:23
Yes, do not tolerate it.
Jennifer: 10:25
Yeah. Alright, and then at six months, what do you start looking for?
Ross: 10:31
Length of back is something I've been trying to focus on more the past couple years. And a more forward breast in my males. My males don't have enough breast. They don't have enough back length. We're getting there, making some progress. But that, those are the main things at six months is really looking at length of back and a big forward breast.
Jennifer: 10:55
Because they're considered dual purpose. We eat them.
Ross: 10:58
They're
Jennifer: 10:58
egg layers. So you want them to be full in the chest.
Ross: 11:02
Yes, want a big full breast. They're supposed to look good on a table or out in the yard.
Jennifer: 11:06
Yeah, they're not these modern game birds, they're like little barbies standing there and put them on a shish kebab or something
Carey: 11:14
Nope, I like this. It's not a table jumper
Jennifer: 11:17
Huh?
Carey: 11:17
Not a table jumper.
Jennifer: 11:19
No, oh those little saramas Yeah those are my bad birds would eat those
Carey: 11:25
I like watching them at shows. I mean because some of those people they get really into that And I just they do get into
Ross: 11:32
it
Jennifer: 11:33
All right, how about feed? Do you do anything special for the Orpingtons?
Ross: 11:37
No everybody here eats the exact same thing. Luckily, my local feed store is now carrying Kombach, so I just switched to that, but everybody eats the same thing.
Jennifer: 11:48
Since you just switched over to it, do you have any initial observations?
Ross: 11:53
They love it. That it's, they really like the Kombach. I haven't had anybody turn that, their cups are clean every day. They're finishing it up.
Jennifer: 12:04
Yeah. I really like it too. Oh, let's see. What advice would you have for anybody wanting to get started breeding and showing?
Ross: 12:13
If you want to get started breeding and showing obviously by standard, read it, learn it, know it try to create a mental image. Okay. Talk to breeders who are consistently, every year, producing the type of bird that, the type of bird that you are mentally picturing whenever you read the standard. And try to buy the best stock that you can afford. Really good Orpingtons are not cheap and there's a reason they're not cheap because it takes a lot to get them. Sorry, my computer has decided to change my lighting up. The best stock you can afford and get it from a breeder who It's consistently producing really top notch birds. Ridgeview Farms, they sell really good Orpingtons every year, and they're consistently producing really good birds. That's what I would look for. If I was going to start with Orpingtons over, I would go look for somebody who is consistently producing the type of bird that you can mentally picture whenever you read the standards.
Jennifer: 13:18
Now, how do you go about finding those people? That'll be the next question people ask.
Ross: 13:23
Facebook is honestly, as much as we all like to hate it, it is the best way to find stuff. And then of course the Orpington Club, the United Orpington Club has a breeders directory and I think that's a fabulous resource as well.
Jennifer: 13:38
Do you sell?
Ross: 13:40
I have sold one pair of buffs since I started breeding them. And that's it. I call hard. I call really hard.
Jennifer: 13:49
Yeah. So that's the same with me. I just, we just eat them. If somebody calls and says they want one, I'll say I got this one here. Take it or leave it. Cause it's going in the pot if you're not taking it. But I don't advertise. And most of the time it's just somebody wanting a big bird to increase their size of their stock that they had at home.
Ross: 14:12
Yeah, and I think that's always important, too is just, it never hurts to ask. If you need something and somebody has it, the worst they're gonna say is no.
Jennifer: 14:21
And if we said, yeah, we'll call you back later, give me a month, don't hesitate to hit us back in a month because we probably won't call you back.
Ross: 14:28
I have definitely forgotten. Please remind me.
Jennifer: 14:32
We don't keep lists. I tried lists years ago and it just doesn't work.
Ross: 14:37
Yeah, and I'll sell hatching eggs if I've got something extra every now and then. And I think that's another great way to get started. Especially if you can purchase out of their, the exact breeding pens they're breeding from.
Jennifer: 14:49
Not everybody
Ross: 14:50
offers hatching eggs.
Jennifer: 14:51
That leads me to another question. So do you trim in order to increase your fertility?
Ross: 14:56
I do trim, yeah. About, I just take my fist and then trim around it and make a hole about yay big.
Jennifer: 15:05
And then you have to wait for the molt for that to grow back. Yep. Yep. All right. Orpingtons are easy because they're so docile. They're just there. They're so pretty. You don't really have to do a whole lot. So it doesn't really require a huge, long, drawn out conversation.
Ross: 15:21
No, they're a really easy, straightforward breed. Long as you really pay attention to the details, you can't really go wrong with. No,
Jennifer: 15:28
Now we both raised buffs and and that's a color, not a breed for everybody who will type that out. Orpington's also come in black, white, blue, black,
Ross: 15:41
white, blue and buff.
Jennifer: 15:42
Yep. That's the APA standards, but you can get other colors like lavender. Yeah, not
Ross: 15:49
recognized. And I honestly don't think there's enough people working on them to get them recognized. They have a feather shredding gene that is really hard to recognize.
Jennifer: 15:58
Do you know anybody that has a lavender line that doesn't have the shredder gene? I don't either. Yeah. No, self believes are hard. I don't know anybody either. All righty thanks for joining us today to talk about Orpington's.
Ross: 16:15
Absolutely. We can go in depth on them, but that's a pretty good brief overview.
Jennifer: 16:20
Yes, that's exactly what we needed.
Ross: 16:23
Yep.
Jennifer: 16:24
All right. We'll talk to you soon.
Ross: 16:26
All right. Thank you.
Carey: 16:28
Thank you for joining us this week. Before you go, be sure to subscribe to our podcast so you can receive new episodes right when they are released. And they're released every week. Feel free to email us at poultrynerds@gmail.com to share your thoughts about the show. Until next time, poultry pals, keep clucking, keep learning, and keep it egg citing. This is Carey signing off from Poultry Nerds. Feathers up, everyone. Mhm.
