Poultry Nerds talking Sportsmanship with Jodi Chicken
Kids showing chickens is a ton of fun to watch and help with. Jodi Frye is a judge and she walks us through showmanship and what the kids needs to know before hand and what to expect. This a must listen for all the kids 0-18 who want to show chickens and do well!
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Carey: 0:00
Hi, and welcome to the Poultry Nerds Podcast. I'm Kerry Blackman, and I'm here with my co host for the show, Jennifer Bryant, and we're here to help you figure out how to raise the healthiest, happiest, and highest quality birds possible.
Jennifer: 0:24
We're here today with Jodi Frye from, Tennessee welcome Jodi. So tell us about your credentials. So you're not actually a judge yet. So explain to our listeners what the difference is and what the process is.
Jodi: 0:43
So there's two major organizations in North America that govern what kind of, what breeds and varieties of poultry we they accept or recognize as a standardized breed and what rules they put in place for how those shows should be handled and how those birds should be judged. Each organization has separate rules on how they certify their judges and programs for how they go through that process to get certified. The APA and the ABA generally work hand in hand with each other so that if someone's certified in one, it's pretty easy to gain your second certification in the other. I decided to start with the ABA because it seems easier to get your ABA license first, wait two years, and then take the APA exam to become an APA judge as well. So with the ABA, I have to clerk eight times under eight different judges. And then I have to judge two junior shows. Where I'm judging, but there's a certified judge of at least five years working with me, who is watching all the decisions and the choices I make, making sure I'm doing everything correctly and with process. Then there is a floor test and a written test. And those are both typically done at a show where one of the people from the ABA judges committee is present.
Jennifer: 2:05
So does the ABA expect you to have everything memorized on every single breed? Or do you get to keep the book with you as a cheat sheet?
Jodi: 2:16
Yes and no. They expect you to know the standard in general. But It's not frowned upon to keep a standard with you as a reference. Now, for the floor test, I won't be able to keep a standard with me. That will be a test of whatever knowledge I'm working with. But most judges do keep a standard on hand or nearby to reference when needed. You'll see many judges with decades of experience that still keep a pocket edition. And they're judging jacket. They keep it on hand.
Jennifer: 2:47
Oh, good for them.
Carey: 2:49
Whoa, wait, there's a cheat sheet pocket edition? Yes,
Jodi: 2:53
there is. There, there's been a pocket edition of the ABA standard available for a while. I really need to get one of the recent edition, but there is a new ABA standard coming. About next year for their anniversary edition. So if you want to get your own copy of the ABA standard, the current edition is available to buy online. If you want an APA standard, that is actually currently not available. Because they have released at Ohio national last year has now been recalled and they are working on fixing all of the errors that were in the. The recent printed version.
Carey: 3:32
Things happen.
Jennifer: 3:34
Are you, when do you expect to take your judge's exam and be finished?
Jodi: 3:40
I am hoping in January. Until I ask the director of the licensing program, which show would be best. the best for me to take it at. One of my two options is one week after Knoxville. I am really hoping that he asks me to head up to Massachusetts so I have a month to study. Also want to make sure I do it at a show that makes sense and has the right people there and the right selection of birds.
Carey: 4:07
So we need to look at having her back on the show sometime in March because, David brought us something good and I really think being able to say Judge Jodi would be fun.
Jennifer: 4:21
I see a whole YouTube channel coming up, Judge Jodi and everything.
Carey: 4:25
She does really good on social media. She can start a YouTube channel called Judge Jodi. She's gonna go ahead and be recording more stuff, and then as soon as she gets that official title, make every one of those public, it's gonna go viral.
Jodi: 4:41
Oh, many people actually already know me as Jodi Chicken. That's a nickname I picked up. Years ago. And that's my handle on just about every social media platform is Jodi chicken. All one one
Carey: 4:53
Jodi chicken. There it is.
Jodi: 4:56
So what breeds do you race? So currently working with light Bantam Brahmas and Saramas. I've worked with previously, starting from what I began with, were large fowl Cochins, then got Bantam Cochins. And those two were my main breeds for about 10 years. Got into, in between have gotten into Bantam Barn of Elders, tried raising Koshamos, that didn't go all that well, had a hard time hatching and raising those. And now, yeah, fully transitioned into Brahmas and Saramas. And I hope to get back into coaches one day, but had to limit myself during college and in between still living at home to having my own place one day.
Jennifer: 5:42
Understandable. We didn't actually have you on the podcast today in order to harass you about a new YouTube show, which we just made that up. It's not really out there. But. We have a mutual person that we know in Murfreesboro because Michael has talked to you, right? Yes, so we have a junior. So this is a shout out to MJ in Murfreesboro He is showing my Buff Orpington's and I believe he picked up Some from Jerry this weekend. Also he got some bullets from him and so he's super excited. He's had me over to his farm to help him with selection and looking at the birds and different things. I think he's 11. I think it's 11, 10, 11, something like that. Anyway, so they posed a bunch of questions because they're wanting to do showmanship. And I don't know anything about showmanship. I've never even seen that at a show that I've been to. Is that a more Northern thing versus a Southern thing?
Jodi: 6:48
Not necessarily. You just see it more frequently up north. It's pushed more, especially in that Ohio belt region. In Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania, that area. Showmanship is incredibly competitive. It's also pretty competitive once you get down into Florida in the areas that they have agriculture. For some reason, it's very weak in the southeast area. I think education with the animals that they're raising when they're in programs like 4 H and FFA is just emphasized harder in other regions and I think it's also, no, I don't want to insult the Southeast as a whole, but I just see parents up north put more emphasis on their kids to study more about any kind of project or animal they're raising, rather than just having it for fun and just doing it. To have it because they're interested in it. It's just a different mentality that exists.
Jennifer: 7:49
I think Michael is going to work with the Middle Tennessee 4 H. I'm going to go up there and help him in January do some stuff. And so why don't you explain to our listeners what showmanship is? Because, I don't really know either,
Jodi: 8:06
yeah, so usually I define showmanship as an in person quiz about the bird you've brought. Now, the bird you've brought doesn't have to be the same as any of the entries that you've put in the show. It be the same breed, it doesn't have to be the same variety, same size. It can be whatever you want, so long as it's a standardized or recognized breed. If your bird's a mix between two recognized breeds, you can work with that as long as you know the standard for both. So you might have to work harder if you don't have a generic breed per se. But a lot of people come to me with that. It's it's a mixed bird. Like, all right you have more work to do then because now you have to know both sides of that bird's history. But I have a lot of people ask. What makes a good showmanship bird? And that's actually the question that MJ sent us was. What makes the right bird to use in showmanship? The first thing is, of course, a bird that's a recognized breed, so that there is a written standard on it that you can study. That there's written rules and definitions of the defects and DQs that you can memorize, that you can learn to point out on your bird. Second thing is a bird that you can handle well. Some younger kids get into a large breed as soon as they start like I did. I was 10 years old and I was trying to show 10 pound birds in showmanship. That was difficult. That's when I started picking up some phantom coachings. I had a mini version. It was a lot easier for my small hands to handle. Third thing is a bird that you are comfortable using. Some kids actually do better when they swap between breeds more often, so that they're staying more engaged and studying more breeds more frequently. Other kids do better when they have a breed that they're very consistent with. I used Cochins for at least six years straight, starting out in showmanship, before I branched out into using anything else. At that point, I got a little too comfortable. But for someone who's just starting out, don't be afraid to use a bird that's a breed that you're already familiar with. There is nothing wrong with that. Some people think that it's going to get them extra points if it's something that they're not showing. There's, I don't know what you have in the cage in there. I shouldn't necessarily, none of those coop tags have your name on it. You've come up to me in line, you're holding your bird, your only job is to tell me what bird that is and what you know about it. Other things that would make a good showmanship bird, these are nitpicky and really, further steps down the line. It can be helpful to have a bird that's not perfect, especially if there are any DQs or sorry, disqualifications that are very apparent on the bird. If your bird has a side spring on its comb, or you've got a coaching with feather legs that are, the feathers are stiff and it has a vulture hop, disqualifications or major defects that are easy to point out and discuss can actually be really helpful in showmanship. Some people, some kids get very concerned that they have to bring the best bird they have for showmanship. I'm not judging the bird or the quality of it. I want to see that the bird is calm when you handle it, and I want to see that you've cleaned and prepped the bird, but that's it. If it's got any apparent issues, all the better, as long as you can discuss it.
Jennifer: 11:37
So let's do a visual here. So basically you're standing there, and the kid, is this a kid only? Is showmanship just for kids or adults too?
Jodi: 11:47
So showmanship is generally considered 18 and under.
Jennifer: 11:50
Okay.
Jodi: 11:51
Once your kid is old enough to hold a bird, they should usually be able to enter like the peewee category. Usually that's about four or five years old. Yeah. Up until 18.
Jennifer: 12:02
Okay. And so then they're going to walk up to you and it's their turn with their bird and you're going to ask them questions.
Jodi: 12:09
Every show is a little different. It depends on who's running it. When I'm the one that's in charge of managing it, I do it by age group. I'll ask that everyone in that age group be waiting in line with their bird. And then I'll call their name. Whoever's next will come up to me where I'll have the display cage waiting to the side. And we'll start off with, Hi, my name's Jodi. I'm your showmanship judge today. What's your name? And then awesome, what bird did you bring today? Almost every showmanship judge should start off with those three steps of here's me, who are you, and what bird did you bring? That's your cue to start going through the basic steps of this is my Bantam Black Cochin Hen. She is a Bantam Cochin. Cochins originated from, you can start giving the history of your bird, just a few basics about the breed, things like that. I've had some judges that just, They've opened the floor on me especially Ohio Nationals. They're, they can be tricky. They can be hard.
Jennifer: 13:15
They'll just
Jodi: 13:16
open the floor for you to go into a five minute spiel about your bird. For some kids they're waiting for that cue of, okay, when do I say the next part? Others will ask every single question, almost too many, and then I'll already answered half their questions when they get there. So there's not a perfect guide step by step for what a showmanship judge is going to do or ask, because there should always be some questions that are a little different. And every show, every judge has their own process for it. In general, if they're using a YEPA sheet, the Youth Exhibition Poultry Association, that has a standardized order of questions and a standardized order of procedure of what order those things should happen in. But not every show uses those sheets, so it could be different.
Jennifer: 14:10
Gotcha. Okay. So what are you're going to obviously judge a Pee Wee different than a 17 year old, right?
Jodi: 14:19
Yes. So my basic expectations. So Pee Wee is usually up to six years old. Junior, the junior age category with YEPA is seven to 10. Then intermediate is 11 to 13. Okay. And then senior is 14 to 16. That intermediate age of 11 to 13 is honestly the most competitive age group because there's a major developmental difference between an 11 year old and a 13 year old. Most kids do a lot of growing in those few years. It's part of why that group is usually the usually has a lot of kids in it, but it's the smallest age range, except for the juniors, but a peewee for a five or six year old. Okay. You have a chicken. Basic, like what kind of animal is this? Is it a chicken? Is it a duck? Is it a goose? I've seen little kids do it with a goose. Oh, wow. The goose is about as big as the kid. Oh, okay. A little kid doing it with a call duck. All right. So is this called a girl or a boy? Like you say, it's a girl. How do you know that? One little kid went because she quacks. Absolutely. That's right. And I want a little kid at that age to point out maybe five to 10 points about their parts of their bird. Like, all right. I'll take the bird from them earlier than I will other ages. They're little, they got to hold that bird for awhile. Like, all right, ask me your bird. And I'll point like, all right, so what's this? It's the beak. All right, what's this? That's the eye. What's this? The comb. I'll motion to the part I want them to tell me. Once you get to seven and up, I expect them to start pointing that out on their own. Their motor skills are a little better. For most kids, they can hold the bird while they're still, telling me what parts of the bird they're describing. Once you get into that intermediate age of 11 to 13, once you, once they start telling me the anatomy of their bird, I don't want them just to be holding it. I want them to be motioning to what part. All right, this is the beak, the comb, the eyes, the wattles, and I want them to go through the whole bird on their own. No assistance by then. And I want the wings displayed. That, that's a hard skill to talk about just on a podcast with no chicken to show you, but I, when I have senior age kids who are 16 and they're still holding the bird to their chest and just saying, And this is the wing, show me the wing. We can spread the wing out. You should be able to hold the bird in one hand and spread it out. And if the bird's too large for that, then you can set it on the floor. A lot of shows will have a table by showmanship. We can work out other ways to display the bird if it's too big to handle like that. Some kids will use turkeys. That's gonna be complicated. One of the understanding of larger birds.
Jennifer: 17:20
So let's look MJ made us a list of questions which you've seen. So his first question is what makes a good bird a showmanship bird? I mean from what you're telling me it sounds like just one that he's going to be comfortable with.
Jodi: 17:35
One that they're comfortable with that has a written standard. That may be hard for a beginner if they don't have any. Any truly APA accepted breeds, if they still have their backyard birds and some of them are mixed, if they're like, if they're just listed as Easter Eggers, it's not really an Americana. but it's mixed, that might be difficult, makes it a lot easier to do showmanship and to study for it if it's a recognized breed. Once you have that, those are the, that's the main step. It's just having a bird that you can study and that you know how to.
Jennifer: 18:13
So like a five year old could get away, this is a question not a statement, so could a five year old get away with a backyard bird and a 16 year old can't because you need an APA standard bird, or no?
Jodi: 18:27
Senior will be greatly hindered by trying to use a backyard bird that's not just one, that's not just one breed.
Jennifer: 18:35
Okay.
Jodi: 18:36
A six year old would be able to get most of the way through showmanship and would not be hindered too much by that. Because, yeah, I just need to know what kind of, what the parts of your chicken are. Is it, is this a hen or a rooster? Do you know the difference between a hen and a pullet? If I'm really pushing them? Because I try to push every age group to a question level that they can't answer.
Carey: 19:01
I mean you got a 4 or 5 year old that says chicken. That's cute. They get a lot of leeway. But you got a 16 year old that says chicken and you're like, okay buddy. A little bit more
Jodi: 19:15
chicken. I do hope you know that. So
Jennifer: 19:21
if you just want, if you just have a five or six year old who just wants to get involved, just grab one they're comfortable with.
Jodi: 19:28
Yes.
Jennifer: 19:29
Okay. Make sense. Okay. I can see it. All so question number two, how far ahead of the show do I need to ID my showmanship bird? Okay.
Jodi: 19:39
As much time as your kid needs to study, needs to be comfortable with it. Your showmanship bird does not have to be entered ahead of time. In fact, shouldn't be. In most shows it's, not considered acceptable to use the same bird that you've entered in the junior show for showmanship. If it's a smaller show, it shouldn't be too much of an issue. If you talk to the show staff like, hey, this is our first show, this is the only bird we have, just talk to someone about it. But if you're at a big show like Ohio National, you can't, they cannot predict or coordinate when your kid's gonna be in showmanship versus when the judge is going to be on that row. If the bird's not there, the judge is just going to mark that bird as out and move on.
Jennifer: 20:24
Okay, so this would be a good point to a good place to point out. So there's 2 things we're talking about here. 1 is just the show where we plop a bird in the cage and you guys just walk up and down the aisles and we sit and yapper and go out to lunch and stuff and then showmanship. Is where it's more active between the participant, the judge and the bird. It's two separate things. And so you wouldn't want to use the same bird. I can understand that because the bird needs to be in a cage for the regular show. You
Carey: 20:56
may have a judge needing to judge that bird without you there, because it's rude and unacceptable when you're at a show, when the person doing showmanship calls for you to bring your bird. And. Can't be in two places at one time.
Jennifer: 21:15
And a lot of people haven't been to shows before. So to create a visual, you walk into the show as an exhibitor and you pop your bird in the cage and you just wait, but the showmanship is more interactive.
Jodi: 21:29
Yes.
Jennifer: 21:30
The different portion of the show.
Jodi: 21:32
Anytime I'm at a show and I've now just gone to show I'm too old to do showmanship and I'm not there to do it. I don't know what to do with myself.
Jennifer: 21:42
I know you're like sitting there going, there's so much stuff I need to do at home.
Jodi: 21:47
Yeah. I was always, every show I went to as a kid, I was always doing showmanship. And then I transitioned into just about every time I was there, I was either clerking or running showmanship. And now I'm just clerking for credit. And Now if I'm just there, I don't know, I don't know what I'm supposed to be doing, which granted, I know enough people I can talk all day. It just, it feels awkward now.
Jennifer: 22:14
Yep. All right. His third question, how do I actually train them? So do you train them or you just get used to them?
Jodi: 22:25
So yeah, he's saying, do I just handle them daily or is there something more to do? There are some birds that are so crazy that daily handling does not make enough of a difference. It really helps if you're starting out with a bird that is already calm, a bird that's already older and just will sit in your hand longer. If your kid has one kind of, one particular bird that they can just carry around for five or ten minutes and the bird will sit there and put up with it, that's a very strong candidate for showmanship. If it's a bird that you can't catch or anytime you do catch it, it screams like you're about to wring its neck, not a great candidate for showmanship. Even a month of cage training may not make enough difference for them to be able to hold them properly. And that's another important thing for training them. The main thing you need to train that chicken to do for showmanship is to be comfortable in the proper hold. I don't have a visual for you right now, but the proper hold for a showmanship bird, or any bird in general, is one hand underneath the breast from the front with the legs in between your fingers, wherever is comfortable. Then you should be able to hold one wing down with your thumb and the other side of the bird against your chest. Or, if it's a bantam, you can usually get your hand all the way around, at least as an adult with a bantam. Hands big enough to do that.
Carey: 23:50
So like you want to tuck the head up under your arm, have one leg between your index finger and your pinky, the other leg in between your others and tuck it like a football close for visual.
Jodi: 24:08
All of those things except leave the head in front. I want to be able to see the head of the bird.
Carey: 24:14
That makes sense for the showmanship part. I was talking about running. But, yeah, you would essentially hold the bird like a football. Can look around and see everybody.
Jodi: 24:23
I Have a lot of kids walk up in line like that. They've just got the bird shoved under one arm, birds facing forward and they're moving together.
Carey: 24:33
But that's not what you want. You want the bird facing towards the person. When they hold it out, you see the back of it or you see the side where they can show the wing and all that stuff.
Jennifer: 24:43
The side.
Jodi: 24:44
Okay. I'm going to use this. All right. This is a lamp I have.
Jennifer: 24:51
That's a cute lamp. It's a chicken lamp.
Jodi: 24:54
It's a chicken lamp. So here's your chicken. Hands in between the legs. I can't really actually fit. All right. You can hold down the wings. When you walk up in line, holding your bird to the side like this.
Carey: 25:06
Okay, so you want to hold the bird in front of you
Jodi: 25:09
and then when you're displaying the bird to me, you can turn it however you need
Carey: 25:14
to show whatever it is. You're at
Jodi: 25:16
the wing. You're showing me the head and one note, one good note. I'll probably mention this again. When you're going through your bird with the judge, always start from the beak, whether you go this way, whether you go that way, always start with the beak. So
Jennifer: 25:36
interesting. All right. All right. Let's see. Grooming is next. That's a loaded question and that's going to totally depend on the bird. Really soft feather, hard feather.
Jodi: 25:48
Yeah. I have a whole PowerPoint on this one. Yeah. Just condense it for kids. We're going to condense this one. So there's many ways you can prep your bird. For most birds, you're going to need to give them a bath ahead of time. And for most birds, that should be a full bath. Get the whole chicken wet. Get the whole chicken dry again. My personal process for that, that I've used with any breed I've raised, I've got a utility sink. I fill that with pretty hot water. I mix in a little bit of Tide laundry detergent. Put the chicken in. I've got a big cup. Scoop water. Rinse it over the bird. Make sure the feet are clean. If you've got a clean legged bird, you can use a soft brush or a toothbrush to scrub those clean, if they're dirty. Make sure the area around the vent is completely clean. Make sure there's no gunk on their comb or around their eyes. Rinse the bird off. A lot of times I'll mix in a little bit of white vinegar in the water. That really cuts down the stench of the bird. Then towel dry them for a few minutes. Just wrap them like a chicken burrito. Let them soak for a little bit. We'll sop up the water, and then I usually blow dry them some. You get a hairdryer, You turn it to medium heat, high air, not high heat. You might fry the chicken's feathers. And mainly focus on drying the area underneath the wings, and the belly, and around the vent. The rest of the chicken should be able to air dry. Even if the show is the next day, that, that should be enough.
Jennifer: 27:26
Gotcha.
Jodi: 27:27
Oh, sorry. One more. Double check that the beak and the toenails aren't too long. You can use regular toenail trimmers, dog nail trimmers, make sure the upper mandible of the beak. The upper mandible is not overgrown too far. You can trim it back even with the bottom mandible. Don't trim the lower mandible. That one does not grow back. And then the toenails, you can trim them back to a reasonable length.
Jennifer: 27:58
Sounds good. And then Neosporin or
Jodi: 28:01
Sorry.
Jennifer: 28:02
No, you're fine. We can edit that. Okay. On the combs and the legs and the waddles, neosporin or Vicks, I've seen lots of people put different stuff on them.
Jodi: 28:15
Vicks You can just use regular hand moisturizer. That works fine. Some people use BedRx. That gets them really red the morning of the show. All of those are good options.
Jennifer: 28:27
Okay. All right. Let's see what's next. How do you train them to stand properly in the pen, especially when putting them back in the pen after talking with the judge?
Jodi: 28:39
That one's a little harder to train per se, as it just showed a red recording error below on here.
Jennifer: 28:51
It's fine.
Jodi: 28:51
No, okay. But that, that one's a little harder to train. Usually, that's a handling thing, and just practicing handling them, holding them in a pose position, and Just working with them. There's not, there's some breeds that's very important. If it's a modern game, judges expect to see those birds especially trained to pose for a judge. You can try using treats to teach them to stand up and pay attention. If you cage train them before shows, teaching them to stretch up for those so that when we come by With our shiny judging sticks that they know to follow that and pose for us for other breeds like a coaching I don't need it to pose per se but those birds are usually calm enough that once you just set them in the cage and Fix them they'll pose for a couple seconds before they start moving again
Jennifer: 29:49
Yeah,
Jodi: 29:49
other leghorn, you know As long as you can just, as long as I see an attempt to pose the bird, I'm not going to be harsh on the bird immediately moving. That's a very active breed.
Jennifer: 30:05
Gotcha. So breed dependent. Yes. Okay. But at home you could use a dog cage. You could use a drop cage. You know what you could just try to simulate what you're going to see at the show.
Jodi: 30:20
Yeah, or even just a tabletop away. Just setting them on a tabletop that's got a small carpet or a few shavings on it and just training them to pose, teaching them. Just trying to enforce a habit. Chickens are very habitual learners. They don't really listen as much to instruction the way some other animals do. They don't usually pick it up after just once or twice. With chickens, it's habitual. You have to keep them in a coop for at least a week and then they learn that's where they live again. If it's not far from their previous coop, they might still go back to the other one because habitually that's what they used to know. So just getting them used to something and accustomed to it.
Jennifer: 31:04
Maybe play a radio with noise, so they're used to noise that, out here in the country, they wouldn't know what that stuff is.
Carey: 31:12
I'll say this, I actually went, when I was at the Ohio national last year, I recorded about an hour of audio and I did a 12 hour loop of that hour and it sounds like a really loud poultry show for 12 hours. And that was actually recommended to me by Rip, he said, if you really want to get a bird calm and stress free. In a case at a show, you need to go to one, record some audio, loop it and play it constantly. And then you do that for a few days before the show, and it'll be like the bird was home.
Jodi: 31:54
That's actually really good advice. I've never done that myself, but, because a lot of birds do
Jennifer: 31:59
get to the show and they
Jodi: 32:00
panic the first time. Yeah. They're not used to it.
Jennifer: 32:05
Alright, two more questions. What tips do you have for talking with the judge?
Jodi: 32:12
Okay, I've seen some showmanship judges, usually they're older they really, they count some amount of points for how comfortable the kid is talking to them. Personally, I don't have any kind of points that I ever count off for their level of nervousness, how comfortable they are with it, I'm just counting on the information they give me. I just, some kids are going to be naturally comfortable with it, like I was. I know many others are not, and that's something that they have to work towards. I especially don't pick on younger kids for it. Once they're four, in the senior level, that might come into consideration. Only if I'm having to nitpick between, two kids that are both at a hundred points, and, both the tiebreakers didn't work. If that's the wire I come down to. But that's the last thing I want to pick on when the focus here is what they've learned about their bird. This is not them trying to sell a bird. This is not a presentation to a whole group. This is just a quiz about the bird and what they know. So personally, I don't want to consider, their own behavior per se. I just want to consider how well they've presented the bird and what they know about it.
Jennifer: 33:33
But it would be nice to be able to hear them, them talk loud enough and not mumble. In normal conversational type stuff, normal contact respectful. Not y'all done all that stuff, right?
Jodi: 33:48
Which I guess I don't mention that because that can impact the information they give me. So it needs to be communicated well enough that I receive the information so that I can score them on that. If they don't explain it well enough, then I don't give them full credit. That's, sometimes the kid knows just as much as the kid that got full points, but if they don't. explain it well or fully, then they're not going to get full credit on the section. And sometimes that nervousness does impact that. See a lot of kids afterwards thinking, I knew the answer to that one. I just, I got too worked up and then I said the wrong thing. And that does happen. Some of that just comes with practice.
Jennifer: 34:34
And you know what? You're going to do it for the rest of your life. You're always going to forget something. So it's not a big deal. Just do the best you can, right?
Jodi: 34:43
Sorry, Kerry. Were you saying something just a moment ago?
Carey: 34:46
I was going to say, I would not walk up to a judge and say, hey, bruh.
Jodi: 34:52
How you doing?
Carey: 34:53
Most of the judges that I have met that would probably Make them turn around.
Jodi: 34:59
Yeah. Would not take well to that.
Carey: 35:03
No, if I would talk to a judge, I would be extremely respectful. Regardless of that person's age, you got it. Sometimes you have to respect the title. Because some older people tend to have issues with being respectful to younger people just because. That's how they are. But I think if a person has that title, you should respect them and show them the respect that they've earned by going through the clerkship and all that other stuff. So I would, if you're wanting to make a positive impression on a judge, using your manners would, that would definitely get you ahead of most.
Jodi: 35:44
Yes. I always count points for introducing yourself. If, if someone, if a kid walks up to me and says, Hi, my name is, and this is my bird, I am instantly more impressed with that kid. That is a very good way to present yourself. That's a great first impression. I'm already looking forward to the rest of our discussion because I feel like this kid has come prepared. Even if you feel like you didn't get to study well enough and that maybe you're gonna get half the questions wrong, walking in and being the first person to introduce yourself and not me starting the discussion, That's a really great way to start that discussion.
Jennifer: 36:23
Oh, good too. All right, he has one final question. How can we determine whether the shows actually have a competitive junior division?
Jodi: 36:34
That's a good note. Any show that is APA or and or ABA certified should have a competitive junior section. As for if it's not certified, if it's a fair show, that may mean checking their favor book or even contacting the people in charge. If it's an FFA or 4 H show, it should only be a junior section. It should only be kids entering birds. Other than that, that question could also mean checking that, The junior show is offering showmanship because there are a lot of smaller shows that host the junior section. They always do, but they're not actually hosting showmanship that day. And sometimes it can be difficult to find that information. Especially finding the right person to contact if they're having it. That usually means looking at Facebook, checking poultryshowcentral. com, seeing if they've posted anything, or at least a contact number for someone to reach.
Jennifer: 37:37
Showing birds is a kind of a solitary sport almost, in that every once in a while you get together with other solitary people just to chit chat and see what's happening and how the other birds and did you make improvements and what this judge saw that you might be blind to seeing and it's, each show is different. They have personalities. Yes. Alright, I had a question as you were talking, so the points, if somebody wanted to get started in showmanship, where do they find out how the points are dibbied up?
Jodi: 38:19
Points on the showmanship quiz itself, or points they can earn through organizations for it.
Jennifer: 38:27
The hundred points that you keep mentioning. Okay.
Jodi: 38:30
Okay. As of. Since the recent YEPA director took over all YEPA sheets add up to 100. Any sheets I write for showmanship add up to 100. That does not necessarily mean every showmanship quiz is out of 100 points, and some shows have their own system. I cannot speak for any of those others. Those all may be handled differently, and I don't understand how they do their scoring and what sections they weigh heavier than others. Personally, I can say I put the most points on the standard discussion and the anatomy and DQs and defects of their breed. That is the main section I focus on. There's about 10 points for their self intro for their introduction, for them being in proper dress, for their bird being prepared. There's about 30 points for the breed standard discussion. There's about 20 to 30 more points attributed to anatomy and defect and DQ discussions. The rest of the points are all usually just individual questions. Things like name, name all the other ABA classes, or, this is a silky, you already said it's in featherlegged. Can you tell me three other breeds that are in this class? Other, there might be some further questions of, this is a silky, this is not. It's not a game bird, but is it a defect or D disqualification DQ for an old English to be dubbed or undubbed or to be undubbed, there might be questions about other breeds, but they will not count for as much as the discussion about your own breed. That's the main breakdown of mine, and on my personal sheet that I use for showmanship at my fair and other 4 H's, I have five points at the end for thanking the judge. That's not on Yepa's sheets, but that is something I've added personally. Just to follow up on that, if they can introduce themselves, and if they can thank the judge at the end, that really shows me how well they've prepared and practiced.
Jennifer: 40:44
Good to know. Good to know. That is a lot of information. Wow. I didn't know hardly any of it.
Jodi: 40:53
And we could be here all night. I could talk all night. There's, there is so much to know about exhibition showing and we're only getting the tip of the iceberg with just talking about showmanship. There's a little bit you have to understand about in cage showing and. APA and ABA shows to get through it, but in general, you don't have to have shown to do showmanship.
Jennifer: 41:19
Good to know.
Jodi: 41:20
There's just some things you might have to practice and getting your hands on a standard, which can be a little difficult right now. If you have a particular breed you want to study, reach out to someone, they can probably send you photos of their cop, theirs. And maybe they can let you borrow it while you're at a show. Yeah. Hopefully they are able to get that new APA standard out soon. And we can look forward to the next edition of the ABA standard soon, but the current one is available to get. That's the biggest hurdle to get through for studying for showmanship is getting your own copy of a standard because there is so much you would not expect to have to get from that, but there's actually a lot.
Jennifer: 41:58
Yep. Carrie, can you get one of your 30 or 40 kids to go into showmanship? Like she's laughing. She's what?
Jodi: 42:08
That's an uphill battle right
Carey: 42:09
there. None of them are interested in poultry, which is odd. I have, there's 10 of us in my house and I'm really the only one. I'll take that back. The 10 month old, she likes chickens.
Jodi: 42:24
We're going to
Jennifer: 42:24
bank on her. Jodi, thank you so much for joining us. Absolutely. I'm so glad I could. I've really been looking forward to this. And hopefully this answered all of MJ's questions and inspired some other people. But MJ, you have more questions, feel free. You know my phone number. Let me know. And if
Jodi: 42:45
anyone has questions for me, you can always find me. Again, most of my social media handles are Jodi Chicken. You can find me as Jodi Fry on Facebook. Facebook is where most chicken business tends to happen.
Jennifer: 42:58
So
Jodi: 42:58
you will find a lot of other poultry clubs and shows on Facebook. You just have to search for them. And use your resources like Poultry Show Central. You can search for, any show in your area. And if it doesn't say they have showmanship, don't be afraid to reach out and ask because maybe they just don't think they have enough interest. There have been quite a few shows in the last year where it's been only a month before the show and I get a call of, hey, had a few people ask if we were doing the showmanship. We didn't plan on it, but can you come run it?
Jennifer: 43:33
Good. That's a good thing.
Jodi: 43:34
Yeah. So absolutely, find the person to contact, reach out and ask about it because they might just find a way to host it in the next week or two before the show. If they realize people want it.
Jennifer: 43:45
Cause they're just chicken people too. And we all want to talk chicken. Yes. All day. All right, thank you for joining us, and we will probably talk to you later about something else. Yes, I look forward to it.
Carey: 43:59
Have a good one. Thank you for joining us this week. Before you go, be sure to subscribe to our podcast so you can receive new episodes right when they are released. And they're released every week. Feel free to email us at poultrynerds at gmail. com to share your thoughts about the show. Until next time, poultry pals, keep clucking, keep learning, and keep it egg citing. This is Carey signing off from Poultry Nerds. Feathers up, everyone.
44:28
Mhm.
